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Guru Prakash, Assistant Professor (Law), Patna University & Adviser, Dalit Indian Chambers of Commerce & Industry (DICCI), is also a visiting fellow at India Foundation
and is a contributor to mainstream newspapers and online portals. On 3rd July 2020, he spoke with Vikram Singh, Web Manager at Social Media Matters for the ongoing campaign on Dalit Lives Matter.
Guru Prakash feels caste superiority is a reality. He shared, “There is imposed inferiority among the marginalized sections of society. Since, generations downtrodden classes have been made to feel inferior.” He further added, “The public institutions do not have adequate amounts of diversity in key decision making positions. There are not much Dalit representatives in bureaucracy. When casteism is a reality, let’s not try to antagonize it.”
Sharing his experience as a student in college, Guru narrated, “When I was in a premier law college, all the meritorious SC/ST students were allotted dormitory. While the general category students got single room accommodation. At that time we had no idea about what was happening. But when we started reading literature, Babasaheb Ambedkar, Babu Jagjivan Ram, it was then we understood the problems on caste existed even at the institutional level. So, we do not have to run away from these problems but face and confront them in order to have a deeper understanding. I hail from Bihar.” Adding to the conversation he shared, “People often say Bihar is a caste based society. However, caste based marriages are not new to any Indian state. In fact in Maharashtra and Gujarat there are so many caste based societies. So, we have to accept caste as it is. Especially for the younger generation. People like us must accept that caste is a reality and we can no longer afford to run from it.”
Guru also stated, “Historically generation after generation we’ve been made to feel that we’re meant for menial tasks. It’s an imposed inferiority complex. As per NCRB data, there is 66% increase in violence against Dalits. The Supreme Court always condemns violence and atrocities against Dalits, but there are hardly any judges from marginalized communities in the Supreme Court. Till date from the past 70 years there has been only one CJI from Dalit community, i.e. P G Balakrishnan. We have not had any cabinet secretary or foreign secretary from the Dalit community till date. There are not many Dalits in the media. As per a study published in The Pioneer, 96% of top editorial decision making positions are occupied by a single caste.”
Upon asking about ground realities of caste based discrimination in online and offline world, he said, “On ground whatever is happening will reflect on social media as well because it’s also a part of society. But the level of atrocities happening on ground are deeply ingrained in our conscience. In marriages caste factor has become more stringent and robust. However, it’s my personal belief that marriage shouldn’t be subject to any state interference. But it’s our responsibility to look at it in a subjective manner. So, caste has a crucial role to play even in the institution of marriage. The abusive behavior prevalent in the real world is present online as well.”
One being asked why people can’t treat each other equally with respect, Guru shared, “We need to start at an individual level when it comes to respecting people. Everyone has their own definition of morality. Self-introspection would help. We should learn and follow the constitution. With time it shall reflect in our behavior as well.”
While talking about the positive experience on Social Media, he pointed out, “I have benefitted personally through social media. I started writing short notes on Facebook since 2010 which gave me a lot of courage. If we look from a social perspective, social media has addressed the lack of communication. Although it’s a long journey ahead. There needs to be a constructive solution oriented approach. We need to work for the country. Whenever there is discussion on reforms in reservation, I’ve strongly felt the voice of reforms must come from the community.” Guru opined, “If these reforms are imposed, they would be of no significance. Also, there should be a white paper released by the government stating the beneficiaries as well as those deprived of reservation. We can talk about reforms for those sectors where there is lack of representation or zero representation, be it industry, media, civil society, bureaucracy or academia.”
As concluding remarks he shared, “Everyone has their own opinion, perspectives and journey. The idea of dialogue and dissent must be supported. There should be more space for conversations. There could be ideological differences but the conversations must go on. Social Media Matters is contributing towards it.”
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On 19 th June 2020, Amitabh Kumar, Founder, Social Media Matters spoke with Prof Anand Kumar on Juneteenth against slavery for an initiative on Dalit Lives Matter.
Sharing his childhood experiences on casteism, Prof Kumar shared about his journey and when he first encountered the issue of Caste, “First time I came to know about caste system was when I took admission in a government school. The teachers there used to address students on the basis of their caste whenever they were offended with those students. It felt as if it was an identity. But I was born and brought up in Kashividyapeeth where everyone was a firm believer in Gandhian values. I belonged to a socialist family so caste made no difference to me since childhood. We always respected our elders and caste was never an issue.”
Amitabh pointed out, “We do workshops in UP, Bihar, Rajasthan & MP. Since, my surname is also Kumar I’m often asked about my surname.” Sharing his experience Prof Kumar shared, “In North India your surname is often related to your caste. The same was in my case when my name was registered in school. During that time a socialist movement took over the country that stated if we want to abolish the caste system then at least surname shouldn’t be linked to the caste. Highlighting about the cultural fault in the country, Prof Kumar shared, as caste is a big hurdle. If you belong to the dominant caste, you’ll be treated differently. But if you’re a Dalit, people will overlook your qualities and only focus on your caste.
Taking the discussion further Amitabh asked about the rules and regulations that JNU followed for student’s admission from different castes and regions. Prof Kumar responded, “Its Founder’s name represented New Modern India. He was against caste. Although he was a nationalist but believed in progressive socialist ideas. When I became a student at JNU, then there were progressive teachers involved in movement against casteism and polarization. That optimistic environment, gave students like us an opportunity to create an admission process that those undergoing difficulties and hurdles must get some benefits. So, we considered deprivation points. Till that time reservation was already in picture. But we wanted to go beyond that.”
Prof Kumar felt the silence related to caste oppression, economic injustice, gender inequality is not existent anymore. He pointed out, “The feudal system is history and people are not willing to be mere victim in the present scenario. People are not afraid to raise their voices and speak up for themselves. Taboos attached to inter-caste marriage have no place in the present society. Today there is very positive Dalit discourse as it’s against an unjust social system.” Prof Kumar further emphasized, “If the country has to be progressive then all caste, gender, class related hurdles must end. Because of democracy, there is a lot of hope. As Dr B R Ambedkar emphasized on an organized unified movement, seeking knowledge and education, it’s shows the results in the present age. If you won’t study and develop your knowledge skills, then you cannot be empowered. There are no short cuts. In a democratic society social media has opened new avenues.”
Prof Kumar stressed on the need for Dalit representatives to be national leaders. He said, “If there is not an ideal situation we do not need to make it worse. You shouldn’t be self contained about the fact of being a Dalit or non-Dalit leader which is wrong. You shouldn’t create a bubble which is like a mutual appreciation society. Females must come forward as Dalit representatives. Women must be part of the discourse. Exclusion within the deprived and depressed conditions should be understood. Some people have started writing about it.”
Prof Kumar believes inter caste marriages can be a first step towards diminishing caste differences from our society and we need to promote it in order to bring communities closer. There needs to be a cordial relationship with Dalit families in the neighborhood also among Dalit families. To bring closeness among the communities and groups one should read more on caste issues. Amitabh referred to Anurag Kashyap’s movie ‘Masaan’ and many other movies that have raised caste issues and a Marathi film ‘Court’ also deals with the subject.
Speaking on inclusivity of marginalized groups both online and offline, Prof Kumar shared, “We’ve to see various possibilities on the basis of human psychology. What makes me attracted to something and what makes me to avoid some situations? What attracts me is joy, happiness and festivity. So, if you celebrate something and create a situation of festivity, dance, songs, food, awards, etc, then it gives a sense of collective joy.” He further added, “Lectures or seminars could be boring at times. But if you invite me to a film, I’ll take a chance. We’ll have to organize film festivals. Every Saturday evening you may organize a peculiar film of its time. It may be a Charlie Chaplain movie, an Akira Kurosawa or Satyajit Ray film, etc. You have to explore the ways. Comic stories are more attractive than multi volume novels by great writers and authors.
Amitabh concluded the session with, “We’re trying to combine pop culture with activism. There’s an image of angry activists while we want to present a picture of happy activists.”